Sloughi
Moreau-Sipiere International Sloughis

Interview of Ermine Moreau-Sipiere
by Roberto Forsoni, Editor of the "Baraka Book".
Reproduction by kind permission of the Editor.

• WHEN & HOW DID YOU OWN YOUR FIRST SLOUGHI?

In 1976, after already many years of breeding Arabian Horses in France, we received a Gentleman arriving from North Africa with his family, two Arabian broodmares and one Sloughia. He fell in love immediately with one of our Champion stallions but told us that after the moving expenses he was not able to pay the breeding fee. We offered to him a payment-plan but it was still too hard for him. We were sorry for him because he really wanted to breed his Arabian mare, but we did not want to reduce the price for our stallion, having many mares to breed. It would not have been fair for the breeders paying the price. But, this man had a wonderful idea to which we cannot resist. His Sloughia was very sad and unhappy in the mountains of the Pyrennees where it was very cold. She was escaping all the time from their farm and he worried that she will be lost. He was smart because he brought her to us, and proposed her in exchange for the breeding. Of course, we were in love with her immediately and could not refuse his proposition. She adopted us right away to our big surprise. It is said that you don't own your Sloughi! He owns you!

Jilsa from North Africa

and it was exactly the case for this one. She was a very loving, full of life and independent Sloughia. She was beautiful with a gorgeous conformation & movement (but bad ears!) and gave us excellent puppies (without her ears!). She has been our first Sloughi and made us visit other breeders immediately and buying our foundation Sloughis. In 1979, we brought "Jilsa" along with our other four foundation Sloughis with some of our best Arabian horses to the USA.

• HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR SLOUGHI-BREEDING-PROGRAM? YOU ARE ALSO ONE OF THE BIGGEST ARABIAN HORSE BREEDERS SINCE MORE THAN 30 YEARS. IN WHICH WAY DID YOUR EXPERIENCE IN HORSE BREEDING INFLUENCE YOUR SLOUGHI-BREEDING? YOU ARE ALSO BREEDING WITH IMPORTED BLOODLINES. WHAT ARE THE CHARACTERS THAT MAKE A NEW BLOODLINE INTERESTING FOR YOU? (do you choose only the "winners" bloodlines?

No, we don't choose especially the "winners" bloodlines and I will tell you why. The horse breeding did influence a lot our Sloughi breeding. We, of course, did mistakes at the beginning (and still do some) but we, I think, did not do the same with our Sloughis. For example, some horses and some dogs have an entirely different show performance and breeding performance. In our first years of breeding horses, we bred one of our Champion of France, Champion of Europe, International Champion and winner of the Derby in Poland, named Arbor to a beautiful young mare, Dardusza, with the same impressive show record, thinking that we were doing what is said by so many " Breed the Best to the Best and you will have the Best"! The resulting foal was nothing of that; only a good filly but without the extreme qualities of her parents and not going to be a show horse by any means!...It was a hard lesson we will never forget. The little sentence cited above, does not mean to breed the-Top winner to the Top-winner...Unfortunately, in the dog-world too many new breeders are doing this mistake and are discouraged. As said by an Arabian Horse foundation breeder: "Remember that the Arabian Horse & the Sloughi breeds do not need improvement or change. Be careful of the ways you let fuzzy thinking about type, artificial performance, changing standards of the show ring, hype of various kinds, or  others' opinions change your personal standards for your own horses and Sloughis". He is so right! I try in our breeding to see what special traits I need to bring to complement the ones I have already in my gene pool. As a breeder, I find very necessary to cooperate with other breeders and not loose time in criticize them. It is so sad & negative to see in the show ring so many people angry and telling bad things about the winners. We can win one time and the next time the result can change. If we cannot accept this, then why to show our dogs or horses? Unfortunately, the shows are not always what they are meant to be "the very best of the breeding stock shown in the very best condition by the best handlers, under the very best judges"! as written by Patricia Craige's in her book: "Born to win". Sometimes we even can see a dog winning because being the best of a bad lot! Sometimes, also, we don't agree with the judge and prefer another dog for breeding than the winner. This happens so often with the big Arabian shows in the world! I try to see the faults in my dogs and their virtues; especially the good things they pass on to their puppies. We should not be blind because of our love. We should not try to breed today's winners (it is great if we obtain them!) but to try to bring the best of the parents not only for a special litter but for the next generations to come.

This took me years of learning the breed, visiting many overseas breeders and attending many shows, not only in Europe but also in the Countries of origin. We breed our dogs like we breed our horses. We study very carefully the pedigrees; we study the family of the dogs we are considering to mate: the qualities, the faults, the temperament, their results in races, coursings, shows; how are and what are doing their collaterals. We like to see a great homogeneity in their parents progeny or their own litters. After all these considerations, we can decide if this particular dog or horse we are thinking to introduce to our gene pool, will be able to bring the traits we are looking for, to complement the qualities and reduce the faults of our own animals. It is the way we decide to import or not a new Sloughi. We sometimes linebreed and we do not introduce a total new blood too often because it is much more difficult to predict. When we outcross, what we like to do is try to bring a closely bred lines unrelated to our closely ones. This gave us excellent and consistent results in our breeding program. But, of course, you have to know perfectly these bloodlines and what they are doing for the breed and as I said already it is essential to know perfectly your bloodlines and the faults & qualities of your own dogs because they cannot be perfect!.

• TELL US, PLEASE, ABOUT INBREEDING, LINEBREEDING, OUTCROSSING.

I know, this is important and I have been asked this question already many times and I wrote several articles about it including one in the "breed book". Maybe I can cite some parts of what I said already and give my opinion. The total gene pool (genetic diversity) for dogs is large. This is apparent when one consider all the various breeds. However, each individual has been produced by selective breeding which restricts the breed+gene pool to those genetic elements which produce just that breed. We do not want genes for long legs in a Dachshund or nor do we want genes for short legs in a Greyhound. All successful breeders use the system of linebreeding and inbreeding. I must say that at the beginning of our breeding, I bred the full sister to the full brother and it did not work well. The litter was beautiful but two of the puppies had health problems and I did not do it again. But, of course, at that time, I did not know enough on breeding and about the genes of my dogs being still a very "young breeder" without experience. After that, I linebred with success and without any problem... A serious program is when the breeder is trying to keep and ameliorate the qualities and characters of its breed, for generations. The quickest and most certain way to produce superior dogs is by carefully inbreeding & linebreeding, especially with a breed without genetic disease as is the Sloughi. However, there is a big danger in this system of breeding, if you consider only the pedigrees, without considering the genes, the conformation, the health and the temperament. A pedigree is only a guarantee of bloodlines and unfortunately many beginners will consider only pedigrees, especially if it contains winners! Consanguinity will concentrate the qualities but also the faults. When superior animals are used, this method is the most powerful way to perpetuate their qualities and to influence the future of a breeding program.

Odelia de Moreau (linebreeding)

It can be also a disaster if done with the wrong stock. Linebreeding & inbreeding are not the way to bring new things but it is the way to consolidate the best traits. Outcrossing is not a blood-related connection and this represents also a danger for a breeder without experience. He can loose the type he has worked on for a long time. He needs to introduce a new blood if the dog used can bring something needed in his program and if he has already linebred several times. In my opinion, it is just as dangerous to outcross or linebreed when used by a non-experienced breeder. When a breeder has access to a superior dog or a very rare

Jarissa de Moreau (outcrossing)

and precious pedigree, which is not yet in his program, this can bring qualities he needs or correct a fault he has not been able to eliminate. Some people say that outcrossing can bring vigor but linebreeding, when very carefully planned, can do the same! Of course, consanguinity is full of dangers, but it is a great tool when done by a careful breeder who knows the qualities (good conformation, good balance, good temperament) and the faults of his dogs and their ancestors. I would advise to return to the original method, after an outcrossing, when you have obtained the exact traits you were searching for; this will help you to fix those traits for the future. When we study the pedigrees of great dogs or horses, we can see that expert inbreeding, linebreeding and outcrossing have their place in a selected breeding program.. I wish to say again that it is very important to work with other breeders.

• SLOUGHIS, LIKE ALL SIGHTHOUNDS ARE VERY SENSITIVE. YOU SELL PUPPIES WORLD-WIDE. I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE THAT YOUR PUPPIES ARRIVE IN GOOD PHYSICAL AND MENTAL CONDITION. WHAT IS YOUR SECRET?

1995 de Moreau Puppies	1996 de Moreau Puppies

• IN 1997, YOU HAVE BEEN INVITED BY THE KING OF MOROCCO AND YOU HAD THE CHANCE TO SEE MANY SLOUGHIS IN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. WHAT IS YOUR IMPRESSION OF THE SLOUGHI IN MOROCCO COMPARED TO THE OCCIDENTAL SLOUGHI?

We have been invited, my family and I, several times (including in 1989 to His Majesty birthday; it was the occasion for us to present to Him as a gift, our US National Champion Arabian Mare "Georgie Girl"). In 1997, it was again to visit His "grandiose" Haras, where now are several Arabian stallions and broodmares we have sold to Him; but this time, this wonderful trip included also the "Moussem", the Sloughi-specialty! In Morocco the Sloughi is raised all over the Country and the "Club Marocain du Sloughi" is helping the breeders by visiting them very often, distributing some food, free vaccinations, inspecting and selecting the best ones for the shows and parades. At the time of the shows, the Club offers free transportation from all areas for the selected Sloughis to participate (in the Arabic language there is no plural form of Sloughi. The plural for Sloughi is "Slag") and their masters, also a leash for each dog and a white djelhaba (like an uniform in this case) to all handlers. So, they have not to worry about the way they dress...Dr. El Baroudi, President of the "Society Centrale Canine Marocaine" and "Club Marocain du Sloughi" assured me that the number of Sloughis in his Country is growing (10,000 in 1997) despite all the difficulties to raise a Sloughi with the epidemics, the years of dryness, the poverty of the owners, etc...

The Minister and the President congratulating Ermine Moreau-Sipiere for her dedication & work with the Sloughi in USA.

I saw, during the show, most of the Arabs giving bread soaked in olive oil, to their Sloughis...However, now, in the towns, the Sloughi is often fed with commercial dry food. It was a surprise to see how they were very well handled during the shows; we did not see one fighting or one Arab pulling or reprimanding his Sloughi and everything went very smoothly. Just at this show, named "Moussem du Sloughi" in Setat, close to Casablanca, around 60 Sloughis were participating, all of them bred and/or owned by Arabs. It was something very special to see. It was really astonishing to observe all these men with their precious Sloughis, being very silent, listening carefully the remarks of the judges and not discussing at all the results! Their dogs were very quiet, obedient and being in total cooperation and confidence with their masters. There were many brindles and black mantles dogs (not like in Germany, for example, where most of the dogs are sand). For their type, conformation and movement I did not see differences with the Occidental Sloughis, except that more of them were not as good in the ears and tail. But, we should not forget that for the Arabs, hunting is much more important that how the ears and the tail looks! However, the standard being written and kept in Morocco, the authorities are teaching the breeders to try to ameliorate these points. And it is working... All the young ones were showing a big improvement on these two points. I would have loved to bring back with me to the USA, the one or two I preferred in this show but those were not for sale.

1997 Moussem Some of the semi-finalists.

That's at least what they told my husband and I (being French ourselves, it was easy to communicate with these men, many of them, of course, speaking French). The dogs were well presented but no stretched at all and with a more natural neck and head position. The large audience appreciated this way, showing better, without tricks, the real conformation, qualities and faults of the dogs. The Arabian judges made them walk for long time and did study each one for a very long period of time. I like that because they really took their time to choose their winners. As always, the hospitality we received was warm & more than wonderful...

• THE SLOUGHI STANDARD DESCRIBES A WHITE SPOT ON THE CHEST AS A FAULT. DO YOU THINK THAT THE SLOUGHIS SELECTED FOR BREEDING SHOULD ALSO BE SELECTED STRICTLY WITHOUT WHITE SPOTTED-CHEST?

Absolutely not. The Sloughi conformation should be the closest possible to the standard but we must not forget that he is a hound with speed and stamina not only a beautiful Sighthound. There are not many Sloughis in the world, compared to other breeds and it would be very dangerous to choose and breed only dogs without a white spot in the chest. Since no dog is perfect, and that it is a part of the genetic make-up of the Sloughi, we should not worry too much about it.  It would be ridiculous and very dangerous to eliminate from breeding excellent dogs because having white hair on the chest and toes! However, these white hairs should be bred to a minimum.

• DO YOU KNOW ANY HEREDITARY DISEASE OF THE SLOUGHI?

As 1999, there are no documented genetic diseases in this breed. It is still a very healthy breed. For example no dysplasia, etc....* But see update below..

• THERE ARE OFTEN SEEN AFFIRMATIONS THAT THE SLOUGHI IS ONLY A SHORT-COATED SALUKI, AND/OR THE ORIGIN OF BOTH BREEDS IS EXACTLY THE SAME. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

This has been a controversy going on some years ago. It disappeared for some time but is coming back, revived by a few people, especially by one in USA and one in England. I wrote myself articles on the subject, my opinion being that a Sloughi is not a Saluki, based on many researches, many travellings in the Countries of origin; discussions with Arabian Saluki and Sloughi breeders, readings and studies on genetic differences and DNA fingerprints on COO and not COO dogs, but now, I am tired to read "answers written to answer" to somebody who wrote on it and who wants, of course, to be the only one being right! I am afraid that the two parties reanimating the conflict right now will have problems to stop it. No one will accept to not have the last word...Too bad...I decided myself that enough is enough and I will probably not talk too much anymore about it. Anyway, this cannot bring good things to the Saluki nor the Sloughi, knowing that everybody will stick with his opinion. But one day, it will go away and will disappear...Even, the Arabian Countries are not interested anymore in talking about. It is an Continental controversy! "IF" the Sloughi and the Saluki came from the same origins thousands of years ago, so, what? They are two different breeds since long, long time and have two different standards (which are sometimes modified and I don't say ameliorated or not!). The Sloughi standard is kept in Morocco and the Saluki standard is kept in England. Lets the Scientists study the genetic differences in all Sighthounds and let the Saluki lovers breed salukis and the Sloughis lovers breed Sloughis. They are beautiful Sighthounds we all need to protect. We should not lose too much time in "fruitless" polemics and should not give too much importance to it. It is much more important for each of us to study very carefully our respective standards and to breed the best litters possible.

• HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE A "REAL SLOUGHI"?

Aristocratic, intelligent, proud, silent, elegant with powerful but graceful movement. His coat is very tight, short and fine; his muscles are flat but very well outlined; the croup is bony with the hip bones apparent. It is a robust & courageous pursuit and hunting dog with an impression of rusticity. The Sloughi is not a fragile dog but he is also a dog with grace and class. His colors are the natural camouflage for hunting in its native country: all kinds of sand-color in the desert and brindle in the mountains. As said by the FCI standard "the general appearance of the Sloughi is that of a very racy dog, by his look, by the delicacy of tissue and by his muscular leanness. The head is long, refined, but rather strong compared to other Sighthounds. The eyes are large, dark, well-set in their sockets, sometimes not totally open because of a slight obliquity of the eyelids. The expression is gentle but slightly sad, like nostalgic". The head of a Sloughi is what distinguishes him from other Sighthounds. The Country of origin and Europe are giving more and more importance to the head and expression of the Sloughi.

• AND HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE REAL SLOUGHI-CHARACTER?

I am afraid that I have too much to say on this subject for this interview. But I will try to answer the best possible. The Sloughi is very affectionate, extremely sensitive and strongly attached to his family. His beauty is something special, ascetic. The mood and intention of a Sloughi can clearly be read from its face. He is gentle but can become ferocious if real danger is near. He does not like to fight but will do it if he is attacked. He should not be taken lightly when a dangerous situation is involving his master, his property, or himself. In the family the Sloughi is a trustworthy member and is very patient & tolerant with children. He is reserved towards strangers but not shy, just reserved. He is extremely sensitive to anger and does not respond well to it. He will do everything to please his owner. The Sloughi understands very fast but is stubborn like all Sighthounds. He needs love and trust from his master. He can be a big baby, being sensitive to any little hurt and will expect you to fuss over. But, in fact, he is tough and recovers very fast. He does not like to be dirty or wait. He bathes himself like cats do. Because of his composed behavior, he can be kept in an apartment, satisfied with a comfortable chair but he must be allowed to have regular exercise. The Sloughi is always looking to chase down a prey and it is the reason why a fenced area is an absolute necessity, if you have not trained your dog at a very early age to stay close to you. It is always a risk to loose your Sloughi when being in an open field! The Sloughi does not like to stay alone because of its need for contact. It is recommended that he is not left alone for a long period of time. I often recommend to prospective owners, if they have to leave home for some hours everyday, to have two dogs (not necessarily two Sloughis). It is not much more work but it is much more happiness for the Sloughi. He will not try to entertain himself by maybe doing things you will not like to see when you are back. The Sloughi is definitely not a breed for everybody.

• THE SLOUGHI IS NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE AKC. DO YOU HAVE THE INTENTION TO FIGHT FOR THE SLOUGHI RECOGNITION BY THE AKC? IF NOT, WHY?

No, we will not fight for the recognition by the AKC. We will wait and see...There are more than 200 breeds not recognized by AKC, most of them being FCI. Every year, some of them become AKC because they gain a big number of dogs in the USA. The Sloughi is not yet very known in this Country and we do not intend to have, any time soon, a "fashionable" breed! This is the big risk with AKC. Numerous shows organized by this huge organization give the opportunity to fanciers to see a lot of breeds and this is great. But at the same time, it can be a real danger. We can see breed conformation changing little by little... This happened already to many recognized breeds and not only by the faults of some judges who are too impressed by the way the dog is shown and are not looking at the conformation and the movement of this dog, but also by the fault of new breeders, just looking for results in shows to content their "ego". In this world, for some people, dogs are big business and this is what we absolutely don't want to happen to the Sloughi! Of course, there are many good points to be AKC but it is also several dangerous ones for a breed which is not for everybody. The Sloughi will probably be recognized some day by the AKC but we are not in the hurry to ask for it. The AKC has created a new Registry named AKC Foundation Stock Service (FSS) for the Rare Breeds. This does not mean that these breeds can be shown in AKC events but this gives the opportunity to use the experience of this organization to register imported and American-bred dogs considered as rare breeds in USA. The AKC has accepted the Sloughi breed in this special Registry and the National Parent Club: the American Sloughi Association, Inc. has already sent their complete Registry to this service. As you maybe know, there are two Clubs in USA for the Sloughi. So, it is now much easier for the owners and breeders to register their dogs in, at least, one Registry in USA.

• SINCE THE SLOUGHI IS NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE AKC, CAN THE SLOUGHIS BE SHOWN ON INTERNATIONAL SHOWS OUTSIDE OF THE USA?

Yes, the Sloughi can be registered and shown in National and International shows outside of the USA. The reason is that most of the Sloughis in USA, are also FCI registered. Puerto Rico, federated member of the FCI, recognizes the Sloughi. Then, having our FCI certificates, we can obtain an FCI Export Pedigree when we sell a Sloughi outside of the USA. I do that for all my Sloughis and some of them have been registered & shown in different foreign Countries without problems.

• IN 1989, YOU FOUNDED THE ASLA. YOU ARE THE REELECTED PRESIDENT SINCE 9 YEARS. PLEASE EXPLAIN THE ATTITUDE OF THE ASLA.

The American Sloughi Association, Inc (ASLA) is the National Parent Club and has been created in 1989 by members of the first club (which had been created in 1988, dissolved the following year and then reappeared in 1995). The purpose of the ASLA is to unite, help and sponsor those interested in the breeding, showing, coursing and preservation of the genetic purity. The ASLA provides quarterly newsletters and offers worldwide membership. We are thankful to our numerous American & European members who are helping the purpose of the club. We are proud of the great achievements they accomplish in the show ring and in the field and are happy to count very serious breeders and owners among our members. The ASLA has made available the first, complete breed book, published in USA. It is the first of its kind in the world, devoted entirely to the Sloughi. The ASLA is working very closely with Breed Clubs throughout Europe.   We have a lot of work to do in promoting and protecting this breed, still rare in USA.

...* Update:  The PRA disease has been discovered in the breed  in 2000, after this interview has been done. Now, the breeders in USA & Europe can test their Sloughis, and eliminate little by little this recessive gene, which has been discovered in 2000. 

See article with chart,  in English, German & French at: 
www.sloughi-international.com
(Large Official site for the Breed & its Parent Breed Club).

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